Episode 22

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Published on:

19th May 2025

Revelations of divine care - with Melody Escobar

What can we learn about care from the experiences of mothers of children with disabilities? How can the writings of a medieval Christian mystic deepen our understanding of maternal love and care? Can the religious emphasis on kenosis, or self-giving love, be reconciled with a feminist perspective on care? And to what extent does the practice of intimate caregiving lead to a wider concern with equity and social justice?

These are some of the questions we explore in this episode, with Melody Escobar. Melody is a postdoctoral research associate at Baylor University, a private Christian University in Waco, Texas, where she is a research scholar for the Baylor Collaborative on Faith and Disability, in the Center for Developmental Disabilities, and where she lectures on religion and disability, eco-justice, and mysticism. 

Before completing her doctorate in Christian spirituality at Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Melody had a career in corporate communications spanning 18 years. She has served as a Catholic lay minister for more than 10 years in various capacities and she has also worked as a chaplain resident. Melody’s research and publications in Christian spirituality and practical theology focus on families who experience disability, innovative models of ministry, and curricula advancing inclusion and belonging in academic and spiritual life.

Melody is the author of the book Revelations of Divine Care: Disability, Spirituality, and Mutual Flourishing, which was published in 2024 by Baylor University Press, as part of their Studies in Religion, Theology, and Disability series.

We discuss the following topics in this episode:

Melody's personal, spiritual and academic journey (03:55)

Melody's experience as the mother of a child with a disability (06:00)

Equine-assisted therapy for children with disabilities (08:02)

The influence of the writings of Julian of Norwich on Melody's thinking (10:25)

The horse ring as a sacred space of community and belonging (13:55)

The importance of hospitality (17:01)

Melody's research with mothers of children with disabilities (19:10)

The importance of giving voice to mothers' experiences (25:12)

The key themes emerging from Melody's research (27:00)

Faith, spirituality, and care (29:20)

The contested role of kenotic, or self-giving love, in care (32:25)

The need for structural and policy reform to support mothers' caregiving (35:23)

The vision of maternal love in Julian of Norwich's writings (37:25)

Widening the circle of loving care (40:37)

The lessons of Melody's research for churches and faith communities (43:35)

Developments in disability theology (47:44)

Melody's forthcoming book 'Belonging Under The Bridge' (50:07)

Some of the writers and thinkers mentioned in the episode

Julian of Norwich

Philip Sheldrake

Dorothy Day

Henri Nouwen

Max van Manen

Devan Stahl

Links

Equine-assisted therapy

Catholic Worker Movement

Church Under the Bridge

For a transcript of this episode, follow this link to the Careful Thinking Substack

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About the Podcast

Careful Thinking
Exploring ideas about care
At some point in our lives, we will all have the experience of caring for another person - or of being cared for ourselves. But what exactly is ‘care’, and what do we mean by ‘good’ care? How do our beliefs, identities, and the social, cultural and political contexts in which we live, shape our experience of caring or being cared for? And how can ideas, theories, and the findings from research, help us to think more care-fully – and to care more thoughtfully?

Careful Thinking explores these and similar questions, inspired by a belief that thinking critically about care can both deepen our understanding and improve the everyday practice of care. In each episode of the podcast, you'll hear an in-depth conversation with a researcher, writer or practitioner at the cutting edge of current thinking about care.

If you would like to give us your feedback, or suggest a guest or a topic for a future episode, you can get in touch at carefulthinkingpodcast@gmail.com. And you can leave comments on episodes and join in the discussion at https://carefulthinking.substack.com.

About your host

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Martin Robb

Martin Robb is Professor of Care Ethics and Culture at The Open University (UK), where his research has focused on questions of identity, relationships, and care. He is the author of 'Men, Masculinities and the Care of Children: Images, Ideas and Identities' (2020) and the co-editor of 'Men and Loss: New Perspectives on Bereavement, Grief and Masculinity' (2025).