Episode 8

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Published on:

7th May 2024

Spiritual care - with Carlo Leget

How can religious traditions regarding death and dying be adapted for a modern secular culture? What can the concept of 'inner space' contribute to understanding and improving care for the dying and support for the bereaved? And what role do moments of wonder play in the practice of care?

These are some of the questions we explore in this episode, with Carlo Leget. Carlo is Professor of Care Ethics at the University of Humanistic Studies in Utrecht in the Netherlands and the co-founder, with Mai-Britt Guldin, of the Center for Grief and Existential Values, which is based in Aarhus, Denmark. Originally trained as a theologian, Carlo has worked in the fields of moral theology, medical ethics, care ethics and spirituality. His publications in English include Living with God: Thomas Aquinas on the Relation between Life on Earth and ‘Life' after Death, published in 1997, the influential book Art of Living, Art of Dying: Spiritual Care for a Good Death, from 2017, and, with Finn Thorbjørn Hansen and Solveig Botnen Eide, the edited collection Wonder, Silence, and Human Flourishing: Toward a Rehumanization of Health, Education, and Welfare, which was published in 2023. Grief and Existential Awareness: an Integrative Approach, co-written with Mai-Britt Guldin, will be published later this year.

We discuss the following topics in this episode:

Carlo's journey from theology to care ethics (02:45)

The philosophers and writers who have influenced Carlo's thinking (06:58)

The Masters programme in Care Ethics at the University of Humanistic Studies in Utrecht (08:15)

'Art of Living, Art of Dying' (13:23)

The concept of 'inner space' (17:02)

The art of dying model in practice (22:24)

The relevance of the model in a secular and multicultural society (26:19)

A care-ethical approach to euthanasia and assisted dying (30:15)

The Center for Grief and Existential Values (36:32)

An integrative process model of grief and loss (41:57)

'Wonder, Silence and Human Flourishing' (46:49)

The concept of resonance (49:38)

'Wonder Labs' and their relevance for care practice (54:42)

Carlo's plans for future research and writing (57:04)

Links to some of Carlo's publications

'Living with God: Thomas Aquinas on the Relation between Life on Earth and "Life" after Death'

'Art of Living, Art of Dying: Spiritual Care for a Good Death'

'Wonder, Silence, and Human Flourishing: Toward a Rehumanization of Health, Education, and Welfare'

'The integrated process model of loss and grief – an interprofessional understanding’

Other publications mentioned in the episode

Hans-Georg Gadamer, 'Truth and Method'

Joan Tronto, 'Moral Boundaries'

Some of the writers and thinkers discussed in the episode

Thomas Aquinas

Augustine of Hippo

Søren Kierkegaard

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Margaret Urban Walker

Paul Ricoeur

Annelies van Heijst

Frans Vosman

Finn Thorbjørn Hansen

Hartmut Rosa

Mary-Frances O'Connor

Irvin Yalom

For a transcript of this episode, follow this link to the Careful Thinking Substack.




























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About the Podcast

Careful Thinking
Exploring ideas about care
At some point in our lives, we will all have the experience of caring for another person - or of being cared for ourselves. But what exactly is ‘care’, and what do we mean by ‘good’ care? How do our beliefs, identities, and the social, cultural and political contexts in which we live, shape our experience of caring or being cared for? And how can ideas, theories, and the findings from research, help us to think more care-fully – and to care more thoughtfully?

Careful Thinking explores these and similar questions, inspired by a belief that thinking critically about care can both deepen our understanding and improve the everyday practice of care. In each episode of the podcast, you'll hear an in-depth conversation with a researcher, writer or practitioner at the cutting edge of current thinking about care.

If you would like to give us your feedback, or suggest a guest or a topic for a future episode, you can get in touch at carefulthinkingpodcast@gmail.com. And you can leave comments on episodes and join in the discussion at https://carefulthinking.substack.com.

About your host

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Martin Robb

Martin Robb is a Senior Lecturer in the School of Health, Wellbeing and Social Care at The Open University (UK), where his research has focused on men, masculinities and care. He is the author of 'Men, Masculinities and the Care of Children: Images, Ideas and Identities' (2020) and the co-editor of 'Men and Loss: New Perspectives on Bereavement, Grief and Masculinity' (2024).